This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

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This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

Post by goldenband » Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:51 am

OK, I'm 99% sure that, within the last 3-6 months or so, I read or heard the following:

- When Crystal Dynamics were working on the Samurai Shodown port, they were told by SNK to "dumb down" the port so that it wouldn't compete with the Neo Geo versions.
- Specifically, they wanted Crystal Dynamics to remove the scaling, and/or cut 1-2 characters.
- However, Crystal Dynamics didn't do so, and intentionally put out what they believed to be an arcade-perfect port in defiance of SNK.
- This angered SNK quite a bit (I think the exact word was "pissed") and, as a result, a contract that they had to port another Neo Geo game (King of Fighters? Fatal Fury?) was nullified. Ergo, no more SNK games for 3DO.

The thing is, I can't find this interview/feature/whatever-it-was anywhere. I've looked through my search history, but can't find it. Nor have any Google searches paid off.

The only possibility I can think of is that maybe it was attached to this big Naughty Dog feature, and then later redacted for some reason. As that article says, Naughty Dog was being wooed by Crystal Dynamics to use their Way of the Warrior engine for Samurai Shodown. But I could swear that what I read was specifically a Crystal Dynamics retrospective that mentioned this.

I also checked a few different forum posts that talk about Gregg Tavares's revelation that the original Neo Geo version of Samurai Shodown resolves a clinch using a RNG, despite the fact that the game tells you to mash the buttons. I feel like I found this Crystal Dynamics feature around the same time.

I also think ewhac and gammadev allude to the possibility in one of their Let's Play videos, but I don't think I got this factoid from them (did I?).

Does anyone know what I'm talking about, and where I read this? I'm beginning to wonder if I'm imagining things! :shock:

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Re: This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

Post by goldenband » Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:07 am

Aha, I found something, which ironically enough (given recent events) is a post over at Jaguar Sector II:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=us

However, I could've sworn that it was something more substantial than this -- I thought I remembered some kind of retrospective article, told by the developers themselves with somewhat different phrasing and so on.

Still, for posterity, here's the post:
Darque wrote:For those of you that don't now, when the 3DO was still a bit of an infant system, the company that was considered to be the premier developer for the 3DO, Crystal Dynamics, secured the rights to port over Samurai Shodown. Several backstabbings ensued over this game, but in the end, you got something very rare and very special. The story ensues below.
Crystal Dynamics had some very big success stories during the 3DO's lifespan like GEX, The Horde, and Star Control II, so when 3DO got the rights to port SNK's Samurai Shodown, they automatically went to the group to handle the conversion. Crystal Dynamics were more than happy to try and tackle the successful fighting game. SNK did have their stipulations though, which were the same stipulations given to the other companies converting their games, mainly; the game was not allowed to be an arcade perfect port as they wanted people to be able to play the game, but they wanted to ensure that sales of the $300.00 plus carts for their home system were not hurt, especially if the 3DO's price tag dropped. Basically they were told to remove the scaling effects or the paralax scrolling to make the backgrounds static. Crystal Dynamics agreed to these stipulations, and all was well. The final result? Neither were taken out. The game was translated flawlessly to the 3DO and 3DO were never given the rights to another SNK again. On a side note, they were negotiating the rights to Fatal Fury 2 at the time that this happened and this move innitially moved Crystal Dynamics into the dog house, which they never recovered from, which also staked the decision from Crystal Dynamics, in the end, to kill the Blood Omen: Legacy Of Kain project for the 3DO. Funny how things work out in the snd.
Also, here's the closest thing I can find to a reference from ewhac and gammadev:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ6GVB8o7m4#t=50m30s

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Re: This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

Post by NeoGeoNinja » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:24 pm

I'd be interested to hear such speculations straight from the horses mouth too, if I'm honest.

I own this game across multiple formats (inc. Home Cart & 3DO) as well as the other 16-bit versions in the past (MD & SNES ports are not even close and never played the MegaCD/SEGA-CD release) and the 3DO version is the best dedicated port from the arcade I've played on a home system. It's really nice and well executed and sat nicely alongside Capcoms SSFIIX efforts on 3DO at that time.

However, as good as it is, it's not arcade perfect. Not just because of the load times, but it just doesn't play quite the same and isn't as smooth an experience as the original overall.

Growing up though, I ONLY had the 3DO version back in the day and, to me, as a kid, even SFII back on the SNES seemed arcade perfect at the time, so the likes of SS1 & SSF2X on 3DO seemed even more like the arcade back in the mid-90's (just as Saturn emerged really). However, after finally getting my mitts on a Home Console with the SS1 Home Cart years ago... there was a big difference imo, in how it felt and played. Doesn't stop me from still wanting to play it from time to time though.

As always, CDynamics did an amazing job with this port. It really is quite the task to make ports of this caliber on any home console that predates the Dreamcast/PS2 era. Seriously. The PS1 in it's vanilla state couldn't do it and the Saturn had awesome ports for their time too (KOF's, SS's, RB's) but even so, they're still compromised in one way or another. 3DO - in 93/94 - can be super proud of that port, as it can be of the Street Fighter port too.

The since released a SS1 & SS2 compilation for PS1 I'm yet to play and SNKP released an SSAnthology for PS2, which is - more or less - near enough arcade perfect. The main issue with that port is that it's permanently set in 'play me on an LCD screen' mode i.e. it's constantly filtered/blurry. I have NO idea what they were thinking, as none of the other compilations suffer this way :roll:

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Re: This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

Post by T2KFreeker » Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:34 am

goldenband wrote:Aha, I found something, which ironically enough (given recent events) is a post over at Jaguar Sector II:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=us

However, I could've sworn that it was something more substantial than this -- I thought I remembered some kind of retrospective article, told by the developers themselves with somewhat different phrasing and so on.

Still, for posterity, here's the post:
Darque wrote:For those of you that don't now, when the 3DO was still a bit of an infant system, the company that was considered to be the premier developer for the 3DO, Crystal Dynamics, secured the rights to port over Samurai Shodown. Several backstabbings ensued over this game, but in the end, you got something very rare and very special. The story ensues below.
Crystal Dynamics had some very big success stories during the 3DO's lifespan like GEX, The Horde, and Star Control II, so when 3DO got the rights to port SNK's Samurai Shodown, they automatically went to the group to handle the conversion. Crystal Dynamics were more than happy to try and tackle the successful fighting game. SNK did have their stipulations though, which were the same stipulations given to the other companies converting their games, mainly; the game was not allowed to be an arcade perfect port as they wanted people to be able to play the game, but they wanted to ensure that sales of the $300.00 plus carts for their home system were not hurt, especially if the 3DO's price tag dropped. Basically they were told to remove the scaling effects or the paralax scrolling to make the backgrounds static. Crystal Dynamics agreed to these stipulations, and all was well. The final result? Neither were taken out. The game was translated flawlessly to the 3DO and 3DO were never given the rights to another SNK again. On a side note, they were negotiating the rights to Fatal Fury 2 at the time that this happened and this move innitially moved Crystal Dynamics into the dog house, which they never recovered from, which also staked the decision from Crystal Dynamics, in the end, to kill the Blood Omen: Legacy Of Kain project for the 3DO. Funny how things work out in the snd.
Also, here's the closest thing I can find to a reference from ewhac and gammadev:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ6GVB8o7m4#t=50m30s

Well, funny as this is, the quote above from jaguar Sector II is actually from me. :wink: We, when I was working at Game Dude in North Hollywood, got to go to one of the early E3 shows. We also got to talk to many of the developers at Crystal Dynamics at said show. We actually loved the studio because we thought that they were easily one of the best developers for the 3DO and really showed people what the system could do along with Electronic Arts, Studio 3DO, and Interplay.They were the ones who actually told us the story of Samurai Shodown and what happened. I need to clarify something though as I am a little wrong on the quote, they weren't negotiating for Fatal Fury II, but actually Fatal Fury Special. AND, they said that an RPG about a Vampire was in the works for Saturn, Playstation and 3DO at the time but that they were shoehorned into a position making it impossible to release the 3DO version due to working relations with the company due to them causing a falling out between 3DO and SNK. Taking all of that into account, it is safe to assume that the game commented on was indeed Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain. I can't think of any other Vampire RPG that Crystal Dynamics were working on at the time in that era, can you? :wink: Just thought I would resurrect this little thread as there are new users here and there has been talk about Samurai Shodown. Might end in some seriously cool conversation on what else could have been on the 3DO had things not fallen apart like maybe some of the nice SNK shooters from the Neo Geo even? Possibly Metal Slug even?
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Re: This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

Post by FZ-10 » Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:18 am

So.... either one good game with Crystal Dynamics not taking a fall on purpose, or two gimped ports.

I'll take one good one, thank you. :)

Yeah, I wish we could have gotten Fatal Fury Special, but if it and SS sucked, who cares.

Says a lot about SNK, honestly. I guess it makes sense as the Neo Geo consoles were out at the time, right? But still, if you don't want it to complete, then don't port the games. If you want it on other consoles, do it right.
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Re: This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

Post by T2KFreeker » Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:29 am

FZ-10 wrote:So.... either one good game with Crystal Dynamics not taking a fall on purpose, or two gimped ports.

I'll take one good one, thank you. :)

Yeah, I wish we could have gotten Fatal Fury Special, but if it and SS sucked, who cares.

Says a lot about SNK, honestly. I guess it makes sense as the Neo Geo consoles were out at the time, right? But still, if you don't want it to complete, then don't port the games. If you want it on other consoles, do it right.
Yeah, the Neo Geo consoles were in the stores at the time. Samurai Shodown on the Neo Geo was $300.00 or so. Not cheap at all. In the end, it didn't really help much for the 3DO system, that I am aware of, although people were impressed that you had such a really well done port on the system whereas the Genesis/Sega CD and SNES ports were really not very close. Funny as it is, the only time I have seen SNK kick back and just let ports be done to the best of the developers ability were the PC Engine Duo Arcade Card releases. While not arcade perfect, they are actually damn close, especially when you look at the hardware they are running on.
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Re: This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

Post by Martin III » Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:18 am

I can actually understand SNK's rationale. Licensing ports to other consoles earns you money, but on the other hand, you don't want to create your own competition.

But while I understand it, I don't think it really makes sense. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't get the sense that a port being arcade-perfect or not is a significant impact on its sales. The reviewers would make a big deal about it, sure, but when you get right down to it, the overwhelming majority of people bought whichever version is on a console they own. So nerfing a port of a game doesn't prevent that port from being competition; it just damages the game's reputation. Which hurts your business.

Either way, I'm glad Crystal Dynamics went ahead and did their usual best. The sales are history now, while Samurai Showdown 3DO itself is still here.

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Re: This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

Post by NeoGeoNinja » Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:59 pm

Martin III wrote:I can actually understand SNK's rationale. Licensing ports to other consoles earns you money, but on the other hand, you don't want to create your own competition.

But while I understand it, I don't think it really makes sense. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't get the sense that a port being arcade-perfect or not is a significant impact on its sales. The reviewers would make a big deal about it, sure, but when you get right down to it, the overwhelming majority of people bought whichever version is on a console they own. So nerfing a port of a game doesn't prevent that port from being competition; it just damages the game's reputation. Which hurts your business.

Either way, I'm glad Crystal Dynamics went ahead and did their usual best. The sales are history now, while Samurai Showdown 3DO itself is still here.
I tend to agree with this tbh.

Certainly, you could buy SS for NeoGeo, back in the day, for $250 etc, but the main foothold of the console wasn't as a retail unit.

It was either an Arcade Cabinet MVS or you could rent the home console, along with the game. Very few owned the actual machine at the time, much less, would the idea of a faithful port to 3DO affect the decision of the types of PPL specifically interested in the NeoGeo at the time.

Like I said back in Feb, the 3DO version is a solid effort, but its still not up to scratch vs the NeoGeo original.

Relating back to this supposed topic of CD ignoring SNKs contractual requests and forfeiting future relations and projects with SNK as a result, I'm probably in the minority, but I'd rather have had CD's masterful attempt at FFSpecial > SS1 personally. I like SS1, but I'm more of a fan of Fatal Fury personally - my favourite series if games in the history of the world...

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Re: This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

Post by T2KFreeker » Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:23 pm

NeoGeoNinja wrote:
Martin III wrote:I can actually understand SNK's rationale. Licensing ports to other consoles earns you money, but on the other hand, you don't want to create your own competition.

But while I understand it, I don't think it really makes sense. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't get the sense that a port being arcade-perfect or not is a significant impact on its sales. The reviewers would make a big deal about it, sure, but when you get right down to it, the overwhelming majority of people bought whichever version is on a console they own. So nerfing a port of a game doesn't prevent that port from being competition; it just damages the game's reputation. Which hurts your business.

Either way, I'm glad Crystal Dynamics went ahead and did their usual best. The sales are history now, while Samurai Showdown 3DO itself is still here.
I tend to agree with this tbh.

Certainly, you could buy SS for NeoGeo, back in the day, for $250 etc, but the main foothold of the console wasn't as a retail unit.

It was either an Arcade Cabinet MVS or you could rent the home console, along with the game. Very few owned the actual machine at the time, much less, would the idea of a faithful port to 3DO affect the decision of the types of PPL specifically interested in the NeoGeo at the time.

Like I said back in Feb, the 3DO version is a solid effort, but its still not up to scratch vs the NeoGeo original.

Relating back to this supposed topic of CD ignoring SNKs contractual requests and forfeiting future relations and projects with SNK as a result, I'm probably in the minority, but I'd rather have had CD's masterful attempt at FFSpecial > SS1 personally. I like SS1, but I'm more of a fan of Fatal Fury personally - my favourite series if games in the history of the world...
I agree with some of the above said things, however, take a walk with me down memory lane, if you will, to a time when "ONE" game could sell a console. It's true. Nintendo 64 is an amazing example of this as people bought it JUST for Super Mario 64 when it released. Don't think a Fighting Game can do it? In the US, the Genesis was outselling the Super Nintendo, and what changed that? The Super Nintendo got Street Fighter II and had the game for about a year before the Genesis got Champion Edition. Things leveled out there again, but for the longest time, people were buying Super Nintendos so they could play Street Fighter in their living rooms. Keeping with the Laymen logic, if you had a console that cost say $300.00 to $400.00 and it had a bunch of those really cool Neo Geo Games on it that were VERY close to arcade perfect and they cost almost a quarter of what the Neo Geo carts did, wouldn't you go for it being a fan. Also, before you go with the Neo Geo CD analogy, keep in mind that the Neo Geo CD was for the Hardcore Neo Geo collector. What would appeal to most gamers of the generation of 3DO is a much broader library. In the end, I don't really know that this would have helped the 3DO in sales, but I am sure that this was what they were thinking. Also, people ask, "Gee, I wonder why this game never showed up on the 3DO?" Perhaps this is one reason. If it became a standard rumor through the gaming companies that ports to the system weren't handled specifically the way the original developers wanted them to be, maybe they were hesitant to release the rights to 3DO contracted developers. In the end, this is all pure speculation on my part, however, it makes perfect sense. You can say, you would be fine with this and that, but that was then and this is now. The gaming community as a whole has changed. Back then you needed a Killer App to sell your console to the masses, and this is why the 3DO, CD-i, and Jaguar all floundered, there was none. Us hardcore fans loved the systems and games, but the Laymen that never gave it a chance hated it and will continue to hate it. Nowadays, you don't really have to have a Killer App to sell your console, which is sad because I just don't see people trying as hard anymore. It's why we have so many shooters and not enough games in other genres. Or complaints from reviewers about how a game isn't long enough even when you know most reviewers don't play the whole game. Seems to me I remember when they had to finish the game in order to review it. Then again, that's a different discussion for a different time. :lol: Sorry about my rambling.
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Re: This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

Post by CasetheCorvetteman » Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:53 am

3DO version arcade perfect??? Not in your wildest dreams... Its not a mark on the NEO•GEO cart or CD version...

If this was true, why are the Saturn versions of SNK games so darn close to perfect?
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Re: This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

Post by T2KFreeker » Sat Nov 08, 2014 4:45 am

CasetheCorvetteman wrote:3DO version arcade perfect??? Not in your wildest dreams... Its not a mark on the NEO•GEO cart or CD version...

If this was true, why are the Saturn versions of SNK games so darn close to perfect?
Not trying to be rude, but asking a serious question here; what does the quality of the Saturn versions of Neo Geo games have to do anything with the 3DO or Neo Geo even? If you read what you wrote above, you make it sound like it's impossible for the 3DO version to be close because it's not on the Saturn, therefore, I am not following the logic in the question/comment...
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Re: This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

Post by CasetheCorvetteman » Sat Nov 08, 2014 6:00 am

And not being rude in return, but you completely and totally misunderstood what was being said...

To make it clear, if they were told not to have a perfect version of Samurai Shodown on the 3DO due to it hurting NEO•GEO sales, WHY did they then make almost perfect ports on the Saturn? Somehow i wonder how the same would not apply, given that the Saturn couldve taken sales away from SNK even easier than the 3DO...

Its got nothing to do with the power of the 3DO, which in many cases has proven not to be an issue since quite a few games are superior on 3DO over Saturn.

The fact of the port quality is its not arcade perfect, they can claim it is til theyre blue in the face, but it wont change the facts, if it was perfect, you would struggle to tell the difference, when its really quite easy if youve played enough of the genuine original. I bought it on AES when it first came out, then when i sold my NEO•GEO to buy a 3DO i bought Samurai Shodown expecting the perfect port it was claimed to be, and it wasnt. While it may be close, spending 2 years on the NEO•GEO version and then going to the 3DO version, it was a serious dissapointment. Alot is different, and it plays terribly when compared to the original.

In its own right a great game, no doubt, and it served its purpose of bringing a $600 AUD game into the reach of many more for a mere $94.95c AUD, but that still does not make it perfect.

And honestly... Why in this day and age would anyone care which is a better console between the two? Theyre both awesome, i loved them both then as much as i do now. So im not sure why you would think i would come here with the intent to start a Saturn is better than 3DO argument, i never cared in the 90s either!!
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Re: This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

Post by goldenband » Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:54 am

I think it's a mistake to focus on the "arcade-perfect" part of the story, since it's not a direct quote and I think all of us realize there are differences between the 3DO port and Neo Geo original. In other words I don't think there's a "they" who are claiming the port is arcade-perfect, unless you count my half-remembered version of T2KFreeker's story at the start of the thread.

The most salient part is really that Crystal Dynamics was (allegedly) told "to remove the scaling effects or the parallax scrolling to make the backgrounds static", and they didn't.

They also apparently had access to the SNK source code, which is how Gregg Tavares found out that the game just uses a RNG to resolve clinches. :D

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Re: This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

Post by T2KFreeker » Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:28 am

CasetheCorvetteman wrote:And not being rude in return, but you completely and totally misunderstood what was being said...

To make it clear, if they were told not to have a perfect version of Samurai Shodown on the 3DO due to it hurting NEO•GEO sales, WHY did they then make almost perfect ports on the Saturn? Somehow i wonder how the same would not apply, given that the Saturn couldve taken sales away from SNK even easier than the 3DO...

Its got nothing to do with the power of the 3DO, which in many cases has proven not to be an issue since quite a few games are superior on 3DO over Saturn.

The fact of the port quality is its not arcade perfect, they can claim it is til theyre blue in the face, but it wont change the facts, if it was perfect, you would struggle to tell the difference, when its really quite easy if youve played enough of the genuine original. I bought it on AES when it first came out, then when i sold my NEO•GEO to buy a 3DO i bought Samurai Shodown expecting the perfect port it was claimed to be, and it wasnt. While it may be close, spending 2 years on the NEO•GEO version and then going to the 3DO version, it was a serious dissapointment. Alot is different, and it plays terribly when compared to the original.

In its own right a great game, no doubt, and it served its purpose of bringing a $600 AUD game into the reach of many more for a mere $94.95c AUD, but that still does not make it perfect.

And honestly... Why in this day and age would anyone care which is a better console between the two? Theyre both awesome, i loved them both then as much as i do now. So im not sure why you would think i would come here with the intent to start a Saturn is better than 3DO argument, i never cared in the 90s either!!
Thanks for the clear up. Wasn't saying yopu were trying to start a this console is better than that console conversation. LOL I just wanted to make sure I understood what you were saying is all.

I also agree with what Goldenband said below, it's more of the fact that Crystal Dynamics was told to remove or change stuff from the game and they didn't meaning we weren't able to get whatever else it was they had up their sleeves on the 3DO more than anything. I was only repeating what I had been told originally is all. Not trying to start an argument or debate on the quality of the game...LOL
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Re: This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

Post by CasetheCorvetteman » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:02 am

No and i wouldnt have expected anyone would, it really wouldnt be worth the effort at this stage of their lives!!

I can see it was said, but what i cant understand is why it was, and then not much later there are near flawless SNK ports on the Saturn, it just seems really unusual that SNK would allow that with no drama at all yet try previously to block it on another console.

There is certainly merits to both consoles, the 3DO was one hell of a machine in its day, the 3D ability, the resolution, the build quality of the Panasonic made units, this thing had a huge amount going for it and in many ways was far better than the PS1 and Saturn, which shows in most of the multi format games.

The Saturn was more powerful at 2D and it was apparent on a couple 2D games, but as trends have clearly shown the most powerful console doesnt win the race, the Playstation was probably the least capable of the three, and it clearly won that race of popularity hands down.

Id love to have seen what the 3DO couldve done with Rayman, which i reckon was easily better on the Saturn, and although Bug! Was a Sega game, it love to have seen how the 3DO couldve handled something along those lines, because i reckon it wouldve been the better machine for the job.

It seems there are a few cross platform games that were 480i on the 3DO and only 240p on the others, for whatever reason. It is pretty obvious in some games on 3DO where my LIMO PRO scaler shows some deinterlacing artifacts.
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Re: This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

Post by CasetheCorvetteman » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:05 am

Having said all that, the Playstation was certainly a better tool for the job for the ALG live action shooters, with its very high quality video, i reckon those games couldve really worked out well on that console.
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Re: This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

Post by T2KFreeker » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:48 am

In the end, I ended up being a fan of the games that released on the Playstation. I hear the arguments, but the build quality of the system, while nice, the lasers were so damn finicky!

As for the question about the SNK/Crystal Dynamics thing, the o0nly thi9ng I can think of that might have been a small factor in it was the fact that the Saturn SNK games were to release only in Japan whereas the Samurai Shodown was going to hit other regions where maybe the Neo Geo hardware wasn't selling quite as strong due to price? Just a guess, and probably wrong, but until we hear it from the horses mouth, we would never know. I do know that I was working at game Dude at the time and we had an easier time selling the 3DO system than the Neo Geo, and even though the console prices was a factor, in the end, it was the fact that people who didn't get it were happy that 3DO games were much cheaper than Neo Geo Carts. I loved the Neo Geo at the time, but yeah, just couldn't afford it. Still, I wish we actually knew the reason for SNK saying that stuff though. Of the ports of the time though, the 3DO one was solid compared to the Genesis, Sega CD and Super NES for sure. I remember the Sega CD port made me want to cry. I was so bummed out that I promptly took it back to the store like ten minutes after I got it home...
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Re: This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

Post by CasetheCorvetteman » Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:24 am

I never played any of the others, problem with all those is i played them all extensively on NEO•GEO first... It made the rest seem very ordinary!!
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Re: This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

Post by a31chris » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:05 pm

I would have loved to seen what they could of done with a second or third generation NFS engine. This is a beautiful game. Its lower rez than the Saturn Daytona but it's just as beautiful if not more so even with its less complex polygons.
What came after the Jaguar was the PS1 which for all it's greatness, ushered in corporate development and with it the bleached, repetitive, bland titles which for the most part we're still playing today. - David Wightman

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Re: This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

Post by CasetheCorvetteman » Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:30 pm

It is absolutely not lower res than Saturn Daytona!!!
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Re: This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

Post by a31chris » Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:37 am

Are you sure? The detail on Daytona polygon decals/textures are way sharper, in the cars etc.
What came after the Jaguar was the PS1 which for all it's greatness, ushered in corporate development and with it the bleached, repetitive, bland titles which for the most part we're still playing today. - David Wightman

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Re: This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

Post by CasetheCorvetteman » Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:27 am

Oh hell no, not on the Saturn version!!
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Re: This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

Post by a31chris » Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:40 pm

Daytona CCE yes most definitely has sharper textured polys than NFS 3DO.
What came after the Jaguar was the PS1 which for all it's greatness, ushered in corporate development and with it the bleached, repetitive, bland titles which for the most part we're still playing today. - David Wightman

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Re: This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

Post by CasetheCorvetteman » Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:47 pm

The resolution on Need For Speed 3DO is 640x480i if i remember rightly, on CCE ( i cant call it Daytona because its a very poor knock off ) is only 320x224.
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Re: This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

Post by a31chris » Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:02 am

That's great. But the textures are still sharper on the Saturn version. Even at a lower rez if that is the case. 3DO version is still a beautiful game. Just does not change the fact that the car texturing is cleaner and clearer on the Saturn.

How did you find out these tidbits of what rez they were done at and why is Daytona CCE a cheap knockoff? Not to get off topic.
What came after the Jaguar was the PS1 which for all it's greatness, ushered in corporate development and with it the bleached, repetitive, bland titles which for the most part we're still playing today. - David Wightman

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Re: This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

Post by CasetheCorvetteman » Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:40 am

CCE is not made on the original Daytona USA model, its an ok game in its own right, but it does nothing to capture the action of the original arcade version. It basically plays absolutely nothing like the original, and that is the same reason the Dreamcast version was also a bit of a let down. What made Daytona USA the awesome game it is in the arcade was the way the car handles, the way you can powerslide at 300kph around a hairpin bend, the way you could compression lock the rear wheels by downshifting... That was Daytona USA, and it was PERFECT. The original Saturn version was a mess graphically, but the gameplay was the nearest of any home port to the original, not counting the Xbox and PS3 versions that were based on Sega Racing Classic.

Im not quite sure makes you think the car textures on Daytona are better than on NFS, we must be looking at different versions of the game. The textures are quite good on 3DO NFS, theyre quite real for their day, especially the road surface and signs etc, the police cars have good detail, as does the opponent car.

If anything, id have been quite happy to have seen an option in there to reduce the very high level of detail to a lesser state in order for the 3DO to handle it a bit smoother. But lets face it, there is not much about the original NFS that couldve made it a better game for the time. It was an extremely high quality release.

This is probably not the thread to discuss this, ive got no issue with it myself but someone else might, although id be more than happy to discuss it in another more appropriate thread ;)
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Re: This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

Post by NeoGeoNinja » Fri Dec 26, 2014 9:15 am

CasetheCorvetteman wrote:I can see it was said, but what i cant understand is why it was, and then not much later there are near flawless SNK ports on the Saturn, it just seems really unusual that SNK would allow that with no drama at all yet try previously to block it on another console.
100% agreed (as mentioned earlier re: home ports on consoles vs NeoGeo being, primarily, an Arcade/Rental platform.
CasetheCorvetteman wrote:There is certainly merits to both consoles, the 3DO was one hell of a machine in its day, the 3D ability, the resolution, the build quality of the Panasonic made units, this thing had a huge amount going for it and in many ways was far better than the PS1 and Saturn, which shows in most of the multi format games.
CasetheCorvetteman wrote:It seems there are a few cross platform games that were 480i on the 3DO and only 240p on the others, for whatever reason. It is pretty obvious in some games on 3DO where my LIMO PRO scaler shows some deinterlacing artifacts.
To address both above posts, quite simply, aside NFS (the most popular title for 3DO), they were just rushed ports of their 3DO counterparts.

ALL the the Saturn/PS1 ports of 3DO titles I have played have either been stripped back or altered in some way. Space Hulk and StarFighter in particular.

However, I LIKE having 2x variants of NFS that play different and I also felt Return Fire was actually BETTER on PS1. It was much smoother, ESPECIALLY in 2P mode.

I was also surprised to see changes to Shockwave too.
CasetheCorvetteman wrote:The Saturn was more powerful at 2D and it was apparent on a couple 2D games, but as trends have clearly shown the most powerful console doesnt win the race, the Playstation was probably the least capable of the three, and it clearly won that race of popularity hands down.
Can't agree. The PS1 has clearly and obviously shown, it really was NOT the least capable in ANY way, aside perhaps 2D vs the Saturn. And that was simply down to available on-board RAM vs Saturn stock RAM + Expansion. Let us not forget, when SEGA (as usual :roll: ) created the Saturn, they couldn't see past making the next best in-home Arcade Perfect 2D gaming home console vs Sony's vision of what they felt people ACTUALLY wanted in their next gen console at the time: full on 3D gaming at home. Ironic seeing as SEGA were pioneering their groundbreaking VF1 & VRacing in the arcades BEFORE the Saturn's release, with 3D as an additional aspect.
CasetheCorvetteman wrote:Id love to have seen what the 3DO couldve done with Rayman, which i reckon was easily better on the Saturn, and although Bug! Was a Sega game, it love to have seen how the 3DO couldve handled something along those lines, because i reckon it wouldve been the better machine for the job
I don't agree that it Rayman was 'easily better' on Saturn. That's a debate that pops up a LOT in respect to Jaguar vs PS1 vs Saturn. However, I WILL agree, that imo, it IS the best overall port of all 3, incrementally speaking.

Absolutely agree btw, that BUG! on 3DO would have been PERFECT for the platform. It really is the type of title the 3DO would excel at!

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Re: This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

Post by T2KFreeker » Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:51 pm

Without doing a lot of quoting, all I can say is that Space Hulk for the Saturn is actually quite a nice port of the 3DO game. While I think the framerate is a bit smoother, the detail is better on the 3DO version, so just depends on what you are looking for. The Horde was actually quite nice on the Saturn as well as GEX. From there, it's all a bunch of hit and miss. I personally don't like the PS2 version of Return Fire...however, it's probably just personal preference because I have always been used top the 3DO version and I always hated the Playstation controller, especially the painfully stiff D-Pad of the very original, non Dual Shock Pad, so that's what I originally played it on...Ouch!

I adore the 3DO Need for Speed, as we have all determined, and I also really like the Saturn Daytona USA, although, I agree that the graphics, while not horrid, when compared to the Arcade. I do agree that Need for Speed is also a much nicer looking game than Daytona on the Saturn was. I always thought that Rayman was more impressive on the Jaguar, but again, that's preference, and still quite awesome for being on a cart VS on a CD. They fit it all man, other than the FMV, but what they presented was quite nice and the frames of animation in the characters was fantastic.

In all fairness though, the worst ports I personally saw from 3DO to Playstation were easily Star Fighter, Shockwave, and Space Hulk. Train wrecks, all three of them. While Road Rash was graphically comparable, the load times were stupid, especially when loading your game or saving it. That was just lazy programming right there!
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Re: This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

Post by Martin III » Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:50 am

I've been reading some more Electronic Gaming Monthly, and interestingly enough, it turns out that whether or not SNK should have the 3DO version of Samurai Shodown be nerfed was a hot topic even before the game was released! I think Ed Semrad makes some interesting points here.

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Re: This is driving me nuts... (3DO Samurai Shodown port)

Post by Saffron » Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:48 am

Capcom did the same with SSFII... it's a pity when marketing gets in the way of development.
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