i was under the impression that every model was able to play backups?Calavera wrote:Well I know that the GDO-101M plays burnt games, but thats the only difference I know of.3DO Experience wrote:It's just a goldstar. Nothing special about it other than he has no clue what it's worth.
What is your preferred 3DO console?
Moderators: 3DO Experience, Devin, Bas, 3DOKid
brento wrote: According to the video description "The Goldstar 3DO GDO-202P hardware include a copy protection."
That is simply false for a lot of reasons.
If you want to implement copy protection, you need to do it on the media as well as the console (unless you are doing something like data position measurement, which the 3DO is incapable of). No 3DO software was ever copy protected, so it doesn't make much sense to start producing hardware with some form of check for something that doesn't exist on any of the games.
Additionally, I have a Russian friend who ONLY plays CD-R's on his GDO-202P as he doesn't own any legitimate software.
I have no idea, this guy claims that his 3DO will not read CD-Rs without the swap trick, so I don't know.bitrate wrote:brento wrote: According to the video description "The Goldstar 3DO GDO-202P hardware include a copy protection."
That is simply false for a lot of reasons.
If you want to implement copy protection, you need to do it on the media as well as the console (unless you are doing something like data position measurement, which the 3DO is incapable of). No 3DO software was ever copy protected, so it doesn't make much sense to start producing hardware with some form of check for something that doesn't exist on any of the games.
Additionally, I have a Russian friend who ONLY plays CD-R's on his GDO-202P as he doesn't own any legitimate software.
I always liked the 2nd model Sega Master System better than the 1st.brento wrote:because unless it's the DS, first generation models of consoles always look the bestRincewind wrote:Why am I not surprised that the FZ-1 is winning?
Most wanted - Eye of Typhoon, 3DO Magazines issues #14 & #15, Pro Stadium, Defcon 5
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I vote FZ1, tough as old boots. I dropped one on my foot and it hurt like hell so they've got to be the best.
My music... https://soundcloud.com/softkitty123
Painful way to establish durability.Scarlettkitten wrote:I vote FZ1, tough as old boots. I dropped one on my foot and it hurt like hell so they've got to be the best.
Of course reason why I voted for FZ-1 is because that is the only console I have. I would venture to guess that the FZ-1 is more commonly owned by 3DO fans compared to the FZ-10 or at least it is preferred but thats not to say that there aren't those would might have both FZ-1 and FZ-10 as well as other third party versions either Goldstar or Sanyo.
Sapient Pearwood?
The person who posted the video said thisbitrate wrote:brento wrote: According to the video description "The Goldstar 3DO GDO-202P hardware include a copy protection."
That is simply false for a lot of reasons.
If you want to implement copy protection, you need to do it on the media as well as the console (unless you are doing something like data position measurement, which the 3DO is incapable of). No 3DO software was ever copy protected, so it doesn't make much sense to start producing hardware with some form of check for something that doesn't exist on any of the games.
Additionally, I have a Russian friend who ONLY plays CD-R's on his GDO-202P as he doesn't own any legitimate software.
This is US patent:
International Publication Number: WO 97/45836
Applicant: THE 3DO COMPANY (US/US); 600 Galveston Drive, Redwood City, CA 94063 (US).
Title: OPTICAL DISK WITH COPY PROTECTION
Priority Data: 08/655,961 31 May 1996 (31.05.96) US
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Not the all 3DO manufacturers was include in their consoles copy protection capabilities, but a Goldstar in GDO-202P was.
Hi, everyone!
This person, who told about copy protection in GDO-202P, is I am. I want to say a few words about the console GDO-202P. Sorry about my english. In Russia we have several models Goldstar 3DO - 101 & 202 models are mostly common. We know 202P as problematic console (all of CD-Rs will be rejected allways). First of all, it seems the console laser head can't read CD-R, but if you burn audio CD-R and try to read it, this CD-R will be readed successfully. The console hardware somehow determines the type of CD. That patent describes some principles differentiation what kind of media used. So, I think Goldstar use this patent to make hardware copy protection in GDO-202P.
Update:
Here, the patent - http://www.mediafire.com/?5d6h6no4yrilqod
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By topic:
My favorite console is FZ-10. Because this is my first 3DO.
This person, who told about copy protection in GDO-202P, is I am. I want to say a few words about the console GDO-202P. Sorry about my english. In Russia we have several models Goldstar 3DO - 101 & 202 models are mostly common. We know 202P as problematic console (all of CD-Rs will be rejected allways). First of all, it seems the console laser head can't read CD-R, but if you burn audio CD-R and try to read it, this CD-R will be readed successfully. The console hardware somehow determines the type of CD. That patent describes some principles differentiation what kind of media used. So, I think Goldstar use this patent to make hardware copy protection in GDO-202P.
Update:
Here, the patent - http://www.mediafire.com/?5d6h6no4yrilqod
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By topic:
My favorite console is FZ-10. Because this is my first 3DO.
Last edited by Nikk3do on Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Nikk3do wrote:Hi, everyone!
This person, who told about copy protection in GDO-202P, is I am. I want to say a few words about the console GDO-202P. Sorry about my english. In Russia we have several models Goldstar 3DO - 101 & 202 models are mostly common. We know 202P as problematic console (all of CD-Rs will be rejected allways). First of all, it seems the console laser head can't read CD-R, but if you burn audio CD-R and try to read it, this CD-R will be readed successfully. The console hardware somehow determines the type of CD. That patent describes some principles differentiation what kind of media used. So, I think Goldstar use this patent to make hardware copy protection in GDO-202P.
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By topic:
My favorite console is FZ-10. Because this is my first 3DO.
That's actually very interesting. I'm going to see if i can find the patent. thanks for joining.
3DOKid.
Disk copy protection discussion can become very large and tech heavy, so I will try to limit what I write here.
Although I am an engineer and do understand elements of encryption and copy protection, I am no expert in these two fields, so please keep this in mind.
There are a number of issues here.
This patent had an international filing date of May 28, 1997 and a publication date of Dec. 4, 1997. This means that the patent was not even filed until almost a full year after the last 3DO game was released. Yes, the priority data field is populated with a date of May 31, 1996, but even this is just a month before the last title ever produced for the 3DO hit the shelves.
Additionally, this priority data may not even contain information directed at copy protection. It may have to do with data parsing between the drive and console, the encryption that protects against unauthorized code execution, or anything for that matter.
Although not unprecedented, companies do not usually patent a technology half a decade after it was developed and mass-marketed either. Especially a technology such as this, aimed at protecting profits.
They also do not begin implementing a technology such as this when the target device is all but completely dead.
It doesn't make sense from an economics perspective, not to mention that depending on the implementation you run the risk of breaking the machines ability to play any software released in the early years of the platforms existence.
The patent itself describes numerous disk copy protection mechanisms and nothing specific to the 3DO Multiplayer. In fact, the 3DO Multiplayer is not even mentioned.
If I had to guess at why your 202p refuses to boot CD-R's I would say it may well have to do with the disks failing the unauthorized code verification due in part to Goldstar's finicky drive and the inherent "less-than-perfect" copies CD burners and CD-R media produce. A small binary difference (as read by a Goldstar drive) here or there in an FMV clip of a particular game for example, may not make much of a difference at all if the game successfully booted and is running. However, that same "small" binary difference can be catastrophic when the console is expecting precision in the hash during code authentication.
I'm not trying to sound rude here, so let me apologize if I am coming across that way. It may end up that I am wrong here. When I examine this from an historical, technological, and economics view point, it just doesn't add up for me. There is also the issue of my Russian acquaintance who runs CD-R's in his 202p. It has been a while since I have spoken with him, but I do remember him commenting on the stubborness of his unit when reading his "software". He did say, however, that he was able to run his copies.
In the interest of curiosity, what method of disk copy protection do you think is being employed by your 202p?
Although I am an engineer and do understand elements of encryption and copy protection, I am no expert in these two fields, so please keep this in mind.
There are a number of issues here.
This patent had an international filing date of May 28, 1997 and a publication date of Dec. 4, 1997. This means that the patent was not even filed until almost a full year after the last 3DO game was released. Yes, the priority data field is populated with a date of May 31, 1996, but even this is just a month before the last title ever produced for the 3DO hit the shelves.
Additionally, this priority data may not even contain information directed at copy protection. It may have to do with data parsing between the drive and console, the encryption that protects against unauthorized code execution, or anything for that matter.
Although not unprecedented, companies do not usually patent a technology half a decade after it was developed and mass-marketed either. Especially a technology such as this, aimed at protecting profits.
They also do not begin implementing a technology such as this when the target device is all but completely dead.
It doesn't make sense from an economics perspective, not to mention that depending on the implementation you run the risk of breaking the machines ability to play any software released in the early years of the platforms existence.
The patent itself describes numerous disk copy protection mechanisms and nothing specific to the 3DO Multiplayer. In fact, the 3DO Multiplayer is not even mentioned.
If I had to guess at why your 202p refuses to boot CD-R's I would say it may well have to do with the disks failing the unauthorized code verification due in part to Goldstar's finicky drive and the inherent "less-than-perfect" copies CD burners and CD-R media produce. A small binary difference (as read by a Goldstar drive) here or there in an FMV clip of a particular game for example, may not make much of a difference at all if the game successfully booted and is running. However, that same "small" binary difference can be catastrophic when the console is expecting precision in the hash during code authentication.
I'm not trying to sound rude here, so let me apologize if I am coming across that way. It may end up that I am wrong here. When I examine this from an historical, technological, and economics view point, it just doesn't add up for me. There is also the issue of my Russian acquaintance who runs CD-R's in his 202p. It has been a while since I have spoken with him, but I do remember him commenting on the stubborness of his unit when reading his "software". He did say, however, that he was able to run his copies.
In the interest of curiosity, what method of disk copy protection do you think is being employed by your 202p?
I think why Goldstar used copy protection in its console - it's because they were the manufacturer of 3DO software. In this way Goldstar protect their business.
It is difficult to say what type of protection used in the console. The patent describes the use of a microcontroller, which decides the legitimacy of the disc. This microcontroller is present in the console. I think that protection mechanism is based on tracking errors. Discs prefabricated and CD-R have different errors characteristics. But this is just my guess.
It is difficult to say what type of protection used in the console. The patent describes the use of a microcontroller, which decides the legitimacy of the disc. This microcontroller is present in the console. I think that protection mechanism is based on tracking errors. Discs prefabricated and CD-R have different errors characteristics. But this is just my guess.
Here, the photo and datasheet - http://www.mediafire.com/?l991vehmcv713sr
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I am leaning towards FZ-1 because it looks like the one that I remember reading about. Or the FZ-10 haven't really decided yet.
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Nikk3do wrote:I think why Goldstar used copy protection in its console - it's because they were the manufacturer of 3DO software. In this way Goldstar protect their business.
It is difficult to say what type of protection used in the console. The patent describes the use of a microcontroller, which decides the legitimacy of the disc. This microcontroller is present in the console. I think that protection mechanism is based on tracking errors. Discs prefabricated and CD-R have different errors characteristics. But this is just my guess.
Very interesting, thanks for sharing that information!
How would that microcontroller react to your IDE adapter?
Would this copy protection device make it impossible to use
your IDE adapter with Goldstar 3DOs?
My version of IDE adaptor only for FZ-10. So I dont know how microcontroller shall react to external CD-drive in Goldstar 3DO. I think not only microcontroller can react to the CD-R. The console BIOS may controlling boot process too. When IDE adaptor is attached to console, the native CD controller and antipiracy MCU must be disabled. In this case, to correct boot sequence - BIOS must be patched.Jones wrote:How would that microcontroller react to your IDE adapter?
Would this copy protection device make it impossible to use
your IDE adapter with Goldstar 3DOs?
I dont manufacture this adapter, I just buy this cool stuff from MNEMO. You may ask MNEMO about this - mnemonic-3do@km.rucarlo3do wrote:Do you still manufacturing ur IDE adapter?? and how much it cost
iam thinking of striping down an fz1 and and put it in a pc case and convince myself i own a 3DO BLASTER when iam playing with it. now thats a cool project
(A bit off topic)
I've seen your 3DO 3d-engine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIxp64LA ... re=related
Does it use any 3d acceleration from the CLIO/MADAM custom chips,
or is it purely software based rendering using only the ARM cpu?
I've seen your 3DO 3d-engine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIxp64LA ... re=related
Does it use any 3d acceleration from the CLIO/MADAM custom chips,
or is it purely software based rendering using only the ARM cpu?
Yes, this simple 3D engine use 3DO hardware to render scene (3DO math accelerator uses also). I try to write my own engine and I learning to 3DO architecture in this process. By the way, this IDE adaptor is helpful for my homebrews, becouse I dont have a native devstation to test my samples on real hardware. CD-RW is more cheaper way then CD-R.Jones wrote:Does it use any 3d acceleration from the CLIO/MADAM custom chips, or is it purely software based rendering using only the ARM cpu?