Japanese Killing Time.. Better framerate, or just rumor?

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Post by 3DOKid » Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:35 pm

Burning it now. 3DO Experience, you are awesome. Thank you kindly :)

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Post by bitrate » Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:06 pm

3DO Experience wrote:It's 2.7, and I've made a cover out of the paper slip that was included with it.

I hope you have an earlier one, I'd love to see it.


I found two so far, one of which is an early alpha 2.2 build from the beginning of August 1994.

Does your 2.7 have a build date?

I'll get these uploaded but it will probably take me a few days at least. I'll more than likely get them uploaded at the same time I upload UMK-3.


Image

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Post by awbacon » Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:11 pm

I'd love to see all the betas...I really want to put together a comparison video, so before I start having all the content would be killer

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Post by 3DO Experience » Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:39 pm

2.7 is from August 28th 1995.
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Post by awbacon » Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:41 pm

Thanks for 3DO experience releasing his beta, and an advanced thanks to Bitrate for his alpha 2.2 version. Really excited about this version

So far I don't see much of any difference in the 2.7 version, but I've only spent like 30 minutes with it. Seems like the 'detection boxes' that cue up the character videos are very touchy....really hard to get them to start playing.

Short of that, no noticeable difference so far

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Post by Austin » Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:12 am

Anyone having troubles downloading this? Mine keeps hanging around the 25mb mark. I may have to try another PC..

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Post by BryWI » Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:09 am

IF it hangs at the same spot, you might have to clear your browsers temp folder.

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Post by awbacon » Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:52 pm

So far I have played through about 1/2 of the 2.7 beta Killing Time. Whatever the code changes are, it does not allow me to load my saved game from the Retail copy of Killing Time, so at least in that respect there must be enough fundamental difference between the beta and retail so that using saves in different copies is not possible

Side note : My original save file loads on the Retail Disc / Mail-In Black disc / and the Japanese Version, no problems...so all three of those must contain differences compared to the beta, at least in the save / load system. My guess....enemy placement changes from the beta to Retail, so the saves from my original game would not work within the beta due to some parameters being different. Or perhaps the code that references the save is different in the beta, so that it just cannot 'see' my save file. Either way...they cannot be shared between versions.

Anyway...so far I cannot tell much of a difference between the Beta and Retail. It must have been (based upon the date on the disc images I have seen) to be almost 100% done.

Enemy placement - seems like some enemies appear in slightly different patterns than retail. I dont know if the engine randomly assigns starting positions for all enemies based upon when you start a new game or not, but in the beta, the hunters and ducks appear earlier in the first area than in my retail copy.

Tess Aparitions : The blue Tess ghosts that signify a fmv movie rarely if ever show up. You can hear the "help me" call, as in the retail version, but short of that its rare that the blue apparitions appear correctly. They must not have fully coded that within this beta.

Thats really all I have seen so far, but I have been very busy w/ work so I havent gotten around to checking the entire game. Its especially hard considering that compared to the retail, the differences are so tiny that sometimes I wonder if they are in fact differences, or if I am just mis-remembering what occurs in the retail version. So I go back and forth from retail to beta, and that is really time consuming, to verify if there is something different, or not.

Still excited when the Alpha build gets uploaded. I except / hope for alot more differences than the Beta 2.7. Really hoping for enemies / areas that were scrapped, or some bits of the soundtrack that never made it into the final version of the game.

Don't keep me waiting on that alpha too long! :D and thanks for offering to upload it!

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Post by awbacon » Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:57 pm

Oh...and considering that the Black Mail-In disc is version 3.1, and the beta is 2.7, I would guess that the original red retail disc would be 3.0 or so (can't really find any data to back that up, other than my assumption that the game would have gone gold @ 3.0, and the black disc being the first revision would have logically progressed to 3.1

So the beta @ 2.7 leads me to believe that its almost the full, retail version. All levels / enemies / music has been finalized, and they are in the tweaking stages to eliminate bugs (I haven't seen any yet) and other minute details

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Post by 3DO Experience » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:01 pm

The original disc is v3.5
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Post by awbacon » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:36 pm

Odd its 3.5. Thats what http://www.toseciso.org had it listed as too, but I assumed it was a mistake

So I wonder if the black disc version is actually 3.6? I always see it listed as 3.1, so either thats an error, or 3DO took an earlier (and less buggy) release client and pressed that for the mail-in version?

I think I am going to start going through the game area code by area code (based upon the notes released with the beta) and see where I end up. I counted the codes between the beta and released versions cheats, and there seem to be about 5 more area codes than in the retail version. I am sure most are just in the same area at different positions, but perhaps that will hit on something more interesting than just trodding through the game looking some something random

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Post by 3DO Experience » Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:28 pm

Oh sorry I didn't fill things in for you. The mail-in is not 3.1 aka 3.1.0, it's 3.10 aka 3.10.0
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Post by awbacon » Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:02 pm

ahah...makes much more sense.

Just like OS X revisions...before OS X 10.0 they had OS 9.10.0

So between the beta (2.7) and retail (3.5) I would imagine SOMETHING fundamental changed...now if I could only find it

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Post by bitrate » Mon Nov 22, 2010 3:39 am

awbacon wrote:So far I have played through about 1/2 of the 2.7 beta Killing Time. Whatever the code changes are, it does not allow me to load my saved game from the Retail copy of Killing Time, so at least in that respect there must be enough fundamental difference between the beta and retail so that using saves in different copies is not possible

Side note : My original save file loads on the Retail Disc / Mail-In Black disc / and the Japanese Version, no problems...so all three of those must contain differences compared to the beta, at least in the save / load system. My guess....enemy placement changes from the beta to Retail, so the saves from my original game would not work within the beta due to some parameters being different. Or perhaps the code that references the save is different in the beta, so that it just cannot 'see' my save file. Either way...they cannot be shared between versions.

Anyway...so far I cannot tell much of a difference between the Beta and Retail. It must have been (based upon the date on the disc images I have seen) to be almost 100% done.

Enemy placement - seems like some enemies appear in slightly different patterns than retail. I dont know if the engine randomly assigns starting positions for all enemies based upon when you start a new game or not, but in the beta, the hunters and ducks appear earlier in the first area than in my retail copy.

Tess Aparitions : The blue Tess ghosts that signify a fmv movie rarely if ever show up. You can hear the "help me" call, as in the retail version, but short of that its rare that the blue apparitions appear correctly. They must not have fully coded that within this beta.

Thats really all I have seen so far, but I have been very busy w/ work so I havent gotten around to checking the entire game. Its especially hard considering that compared to the retail, the differences are so tiny that sometimes I wonder if they are in fact differences, or if I am just mis-remembering what occurs in the retail version. So I go back and forth from retail to beta, and that is really time consuming, to verify if there is something different, or not.

Still excited when the Alpha build gets uploaded. I except / hope for alot more differences than the Beta 2.7. Really hoping for enemies / areas that were scrapped, or some bits of the soundtrack that never made it into the final version of the game.

Don't keep me waiting on that alpha too long! :D and thanks for offering to upload it!


It's nice that you are taking the time to look through the games like this. You must know Killing Time backwards and forwards by now.

I should have those two disks uploaded by the end of next week.

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Post by awbacon » Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:46 pm

No problem...its fun for me

And yeah...Killing Time has always held a special place in gaming history for me. I think, at the age when I had a 3DO, it was a game that just really hit me as a combination of perfect things : Soundtrack, gameplay, and story. So I love replaying it, especially now with the beta. Plan on playing some more today, and photographing some of the more interesting differences / bugs I have found

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Post by 3DO Experience » Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:15 am

To be honest I hard a hard time playing this until I got a Flightstick Pro. After that the game was a breeze! I wanted to send the developers a letter telling them how it's been a long time since I played a game that good. Alas they were gone. :cry:
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Post by awbacon » Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:52 am

I've yet to pick up a Flightstick for my 3DO...considering KT is the only game I own that supports it, is it worth it?

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Post by awbacon » Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:56 am

Cause its pretty hard to quickly explore a beta when the controls keep me bouncing into every damn wall around (friggen frame rate)

You know what I always found interesting? It doesn't seem to have any impact on the frame rate when enemies appear! Last night I was wandering through the maze at the beginning of the game...frame rate is chugging...end up confronted by six hunters in the same area...and the frame rate never slows up.

How in the hell can they manage to not drop frames when multiple enemies (6) show up on screen at once, but they couldnt manage to make the game run at 30fps?

I guess the full texture work must be the culprit? I am not 100% sure how the 3DO architecture works, and whether or not it requires more processing power / memory to handle all the textures as opposed to enemies? Just curious if anyone knows the answer to that

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Post by 3DO Experience » Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:44 am

I don't know about the frame rate. As for the Flightstick Pro, if it's something you'ed like to have than get it. If you are just curious than it's prob not worth it.
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Post by Austin » Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:11 am

awbacon wrote:I guess the full texture work must be the culprit? I am not 100% sure how the 3DO architecture works, and whether or not it requires more processing power / memory to handle all the textures as opposed to enemies? Just curious if anyone knows the answer to that
I really think it's just poor optimization. Maybe it was rushed? I don't know. What I do know is that other texture-packed games, like Bladeforce, and even Cyberdillo (run in the smaller screen size) run great. In Cyberdillo's case, the full-screen mode--while choppy--still runs better than Killing Time, IIRC.
Last edited by Austin on Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by awbacon » Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:34 pm

Possibly...I do own Blade Force and it does run at a consistent frame rate. Even Space Hulk runs better than Killing Time, and thats fully textured.

Even if KT is one of my favorite games, the frame rate is still annoying

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Post by awbacon » Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:42 pm

some more interesting observations about the beta...not many, as I have been pretty busy w/ work and the upcoming holiday

1) In the beginning (Matinicus Unbound is the level name I believe), in the beta, its only possible to achieve 87% of the map explored. When you get into the hunter maze areas, its always possible to get 100% of the map explored.

So I don't know if this is just a programming bug, or if there is a secret that I either a) cannot find or b) there is an extra room coded in with no way to access it. I really wish Killing Time had a clipping code that allowed you to go through walls.

2) In the east wing of the mansion (area code E1), when you are playing the switch puzzle to get into E2 (the rooms with the clowns and the smoking skeletons where each switch opens a different path, with only one correct combination of switches allows you a path to the next area) every pathway to the next room has texture distortion. Basically, a texture appears magnified like 10x (one of the textures in the next room) and when you pass through it, it dissapears and doesn't return until you leave the area completely and come back.

So those are the new observations. I know its not much, but its all I have found so far. I am really curious about the map percentage in the beginning of the game. Need to load my retail copy to see if its still the case there, or if its just a programming bug in the beta

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Post by BryWI » Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:22 pm

I wouldnt worry too much about the map percentage. It's pretty much been bugged forever. Even in the "fixed" retail version. It really acts weird when you are near the end of an area usualy.

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Post by Trev » Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:11 pm

Austin wrote:
awbacon wrote:I guess the full texture work must be the culprit? I am not 100% sure how the 3DO architecture works, and whether or not it requires more processing power / memory to handle all the textures as opposed to enemies? Just curious if anyone knows the answer to that
I really think it's just poor optimization. Maybe it was rushed? I don't know. What I do know is that other texture-packed games, like Bladeforce, and even Cyberdillo (run in the smaller screen size) run great. In Cyberdillo's case, the full-screen mode--while chippy--still runs better than Killing Time, IIRC.
Cause Cyberdillo is better than Killing Time. :wink:

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Post by awbacon » Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:49 pm

Ok so I found some more (and more major) differences, but unfortunately I then got screwed hard!

If anyone is playing the beta...the simple act of LOADING the disc into your 3do and starting it up wipes your Retail save...if you save in the beta, then put the retail disc in the 3DO, and then load the beta, save is also gone.

So each copy is telling the 3DO to delete the other copies save data...so I lost my 100% save from the Retail, and all my progress in searching through the beta....COCK SUCKER! Oh well...w/ codes I will be able to pick up where I left off, at least in the beta.

So...its really hard to compare differences between both discs...since beta and retail both clear eachothers saves.

Anyway...on to the differences

Hedge Maze...its majorly corrupted. You can only complete it by walking backwards at most points. For some reason the engine will not render textures if you walk towards them...you end up seeing a screen very similar to Doom's clipping screens (is this based on the doom engine?)

Enemies show up, but some show up as a complete mess...you also get the sound of the ducks quacking, but I don't ever recall them being in the garden in the retail copy, nor did I see any in the beta.

The map now works in the hedge maze, so you can see exactly what your doing / where your going...so that helps.

There are also some textures in the beta that never appeared in the retail copy...and the textures that are shared between both are not placed in the same patterns

So basically, so far I have searched the entire beginning (hunter maze) of the game, the entire east wing, and looped back around via the hedgemaze. Thats probably about 40% of the game, and other than the hedge maze, there are no differences between this beta and retail.

I do still have the west wing, upstairs, sewer, and attic to explore. So we will find out whats going on in there soon.

When I search through the entire game, I will be posting up some images / videos that show the differences...thats if enough people want to see them? I am just assuming people are as curious about the differences between the beta and retail versions as I am.

Still cant wait for the alpha build

Oh...and the beta gives you insane amounts of ammo. You can never run out, its everywhere compared to the retail version

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Post by awbacon » Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:51 pm

Oh....and it only deletes KT save files...I popped in Policenauts (hoping to god it hadnt cleared my progress) and the save file was there...safe and sound. Loaded perfectly

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Post by Qcombus » Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:08 pm

You could try to compress the saves with game guru before loading the other copy of the game. I don't know if it might help but it is worth a try

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Post by 3DO Experience » Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:22 am

awbacon wrote:Ok so I found some more (and more major) differences, but unfortunately I then got screwed hard!
mmmmmmmmm :twisted:
awbacon wrote:COCK SUCKER!
How did you know?
awbacon wrote:When I search through the entire game, I will be posting up some images / videos that show the differences...thats if enough people want to see them? I am just assuming people are as curious about the differences between the beta and retail versions as I am.
That's gonna be great.
Qcombus wrote:You could try to compress the saves with game guru before loading the other copy of the game. I don't know if it might help but it is worth a try
I was thinking the exact thing while reading his post. And it would work for sure.
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Post by Rincewind » Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:36 am

I only played the US version so I can't say.

Speaking of Killing Time, anyone been to this site? Pretty neat fanpage about Killing Time.

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